Name: Turning into 3D - Extrude tool
Uploaded: 2025-07-14T15:28:52.691641+00:00
Duration: 2390 s
Channel: Henry Kay
Description: Let's go and start turning this into 3D so we can actually get the printing this. So I'm going to use the extrude tool, pretty simple. We're going to go and select areas that I actually want to extrude, and the thickness I want is that minimum thickness that I put in that parameter. So I'm gonna go and use minimum thickness there. And that's looking pretty good.

Let's go and start turning this into 3D so we can actually get the printing this. So I'm going to use the extrude tool, pretty simple. We're going to go and select areas that I actually want to extrude, and the thickness I want is that minimum thickness that I put in that parameter. So I'm gonna go and use minimum thickness there.


And that's looking pretty good.

<p>Let's go and start turning this into 3D so we can actually get the printing this. So I'm going to use the extrude tool, pretty simple. We're going to go and select areas that I actually want to extrude, and the thickness I want is that minimum thickness that I put in that parameter. So I'm gonna go and use minimum thickness there.</p><p>And that's looking pretty good.</p>

https://d3ev5earl6dvd0.cloudfront.net/public-media/videos/010/905/010905/video_fTccnSs.mp4#t=1015

Henry Kay

Turning into 3D - Extrude tool

Upgrading glue to zip ties

Setting up the custom file in Fusion 360

Bringing in the zip tie

Learning about joint origins

Finalizing the joint origin

Designing the hole

Space for the head

Lining up the zip tie

What size should the square be?

How to use parameters

Fixing the washer size

Hole representing zip tie

Turning into 3D - Sketch and filet

Turning into 3D - making sure the zip tie fits

Ah, why are we stuck

Simulating the zip tie and creating a derived component

Centering the zip tie

Sending to the 3D printer

Choosing the right option for printing

Check for preheating

How long will it take to print

Should you print or make perfect?

Benefits of the MakerBot

Printer Settings 1

Using printer settings properly

Creating objects with more yjam 45 degree overhangs

Benefits of a heated chamber

Testing the printed object - Head

Testing the printed object - washer

https://d3ev5earl6dvd0.cloudfront.net/public-media/videos/010/905/010905/video_fTccnSs.mp4

Autodesk Fusion 360 LIVE - Idea to 3D Print in Under 30 Minutes

I glued 160 layers of cardboard together to make this chandelier, but the only thing holding those layers together was the glue. There was no mechanical interlock or mechanical fastener holding it all together. So I'm gonna remake this chandelier, and today we're gonna work on one aspect of it, and that's gonna be that mechanical inner lock to hold it all together.


I was thinking there are a lot of different ways I can actually attach those layers together mechanically, but you know, a lot of us have zip ties around. You know, maybe you have a bag that looks like this full of all different size zip ties. Maybe you have some larger ones like these. This is what we're going to use today. So I have a whole bunch of these zip ties, and I want to use.


In a way that's a little different than the standard zip time. So the standard zip time method is of course making a closed loop, putting it all through here, but again, you'll see that it is a loop. And what I'm trying to do is use this sort of more like a rope, so axially. I want this thing to actually hold in this direction instead of having to do a loop.

So


let's all


start by creating a new file, and as always, my golden rule is to save that file right away. So this is going to be called my zip tie washer and this is going to be very custom. We'll go and add that as well. And I'd like to save my files right away because it creates that instance or that file inside the cloud, and that means that my auto saves are going to work in the background for me, so I never have to worry about losing any of my data.


The next thing we're gonna do is we're gonna bring in the zip tie itself, cause we're gonna use that to our advantage. But before that, one more step, we're gonna go and create a new component.


And I typically, when I'm designing custom things, I usually design it internal as an internal component, but there are some cases where I use external components. The zip tie is a great example. It is its own file, but what we're going to do and make a custom washer for it, we'll use that internal component, and this will be called washer. And we don't need to activate it just yet. We'll go and hit OK, and then so that this component doesn't move around, we're gonna also go and add a joint.

So that

it stays put, so to speak, we'll go and use an as built joint between the washer and the main assembly here. I'll leave it as a rigid joint so it's not going to move, and we'll go and hit OK. Perfect.

So now we're ready to go and bring in that zip tie. I'm on a PC, so I can actually go and drag the zip tie right onto the main screen. That's one of the very few things that doesn't match up on the Mac. But if you're on a Mac, you can just right click and say insert into current design.


I brought in my zip tie, but now I want to reorient this so it's a little bit more vertical. So we're going to go and grab the zip tie and actually we'll just move it out of the way for a second and then we're going to go and use a standard joint and place this where I want it. So we have our joint inside this particular file. It turns out we're going to go and use the origin itself of the zip tie, and then I'm gonna go and use the origin of this washer.


Oh, that's not exactly what I was thinking was what I wanted, but I think we can actually fix that pretty easily. So let's actually get canceled.

So today we're gonna learn a little bit about joint origins. Joint origins are another way that you can create joints a little bit more specifically, or get a little bit more control over what you're doing. When I made that joint and I lined up those two origins, it lines up the X, Y, and Z


axes to each other.


And right now I have the


Y up setting in Fusion 360, whereas you might have the Z up. The Z right now is facing forward and on the zip tie it's the same thing. But what I want is that the Z on this is going to line up


with


the Y in my assembly.


So what I want to do is create a joint origin to do that. So under assemble, I'm going to go and use a joint origin.


I'm gonna choose the origin of the washer itself, but there's a trick here, you can choose reorient and you can choose a new Z axis, and for that I'll choose what you would see on the screen is


the Y axis,


and


that's all I really care about, like the rotation doesn't really matter for now. So I'll just go and hit OK, and I have this joint origin that I can now use to actually


do my joint.

Let's try this again, assemble, and we're gonna go and use a joint right there.


I'm gonna choose the origin of the zip tie, and then I'm gonna choose the joint origin that I just created,


and now that lines up exactly how I was


expecting. The only thing I was hoping for is I do want to maybe raise this up a little bit,


make


my life a little bit easier later. So I'll just go and raise that up by 1 millimeter, and that's perfectly fine. All right, so I have my zip tie


in place,


and I have my washer, which right now has nothing in it.

And let's go and start.


Designing this. So I'll turn on


my active component to be that washer. I'll create a sketch, and we're going


to start with the top plane here, and I'm going to draw some geometry that's gonna start this all off. Well, the first thing I know is that I'm gonna have a hole for this


actually, like for that zip tie to go into. So


I draw my hole.


And this metal rod that you see here on my right or in front of me now,


is what I'm going to use to help me


get everything lined up.


So as I laser all of these cardboard layers and I glue them on top of each other, I'm going to force those cardboard layers on this metal rod so


that all of the layers line up with each other. So basically I'm using these metal rods like a big jig or a fixture. So when I put the zip tie in, it's going to be through a hole that needs to match this size. So let's go and grab


My calipers


here.


It turns out this is gonna be 6.4 millimeters.


I am gonna be using


metric today if that's OK with everyone. Hope so. And we'll go and set that to 6.4, and that's pretty good.

Now we're going to go and want some space for the head itself. So let's go and draw that as well under create rectangle, and I personally prefer the two-point rectangle for pretty much everything. So I'm going to go and just draw the two point rectangle. I'm gonna add my own center lines here, might end up using those, and I'll set those to be actual center lines because that might help us later.

Perfect

And then let's hide my zip tie for a moment. We're going to go and line this up.


I'm gonna use the midpoint constraint and center that. And so now we have this rectangle that I could adjust in a couple of different directions. Oh, that's pretty good. What I also want though is some space around this. It's actually gonna be like the washer. So let's also go and draw another circle here.


And I don't yet know the sizes for any of this, but this is pretty good. This is the geometry that I think I want, and then let's go and show our zip tie again.

And let's take a look at this in a little bit more detail. There we are.

So that's looking pretty good.

one thing I'm noticing right off the bat is that when I put my joint, I use the joint at the very bottom of the zip tie that origin wasn't exactly in the middle, so I'm gonna want to adjust that, and we can do that right now actually. Let's go and take a quick measurement. So the zip tie thickness itself is apparently 1.26 millimeters. So if I go back to that joint that I created earlier, go and find that, that would be this one right here.


I'm gonna go and offset this.

I think it's gonna be this way, and we're gonna go and offset it by 1.26 divided by 2, whatever that ends up being. Perfect. All right, so now this actually lined up exactly how I want it. Perfect. So now that we have that, let's go back and edit our sketch again.

So I have some geometry from the zip tie itself.

And I could use that to help me figure out, you know, what size this square should be. So I'm gonna go and project that corner right over here for now. I'll project this corner as well. Now I can hide that zip tie itself. I don't really need it, and I can move this, you know what

I'm thinking maybe I want this to be square.

We can go and add another constraint. I'll make that equal. And now when I drag this in, I can see where they line up. I definitely don't want them to be smaller than the actual projections, and it looks like this one's actually the bigger of the two. So maybe I'll just go and stick with this. I do want a little bit of clearance. I'll go and add some clearance here as well.

This is a good time to talk a little bit about parameters. I love using parameters. So under modify, I could go and say change parameters, and this table comes up called the parameter table, and I love putting in stuff here that I'm going to use a whole bunch of stuff.

So for example, if I wanted to put that gap that I might want to adjust later, I'll go and put that in here.

I might also want like a
minimum thickness for 3D printing.

I'll probably go with 2 millimeters for now. I could probably get away with 1.5, 2 is safe. I'm pretty happy with that. And It's pretty much 
all I can think of at the moment for this particular design.

in terms of how big this washer is gonna be, really what I want to make sure is that the space between

The actual hole and that washer is sufficient to actually hold that cardboard without, you know, pulling through. So we're gonna go and add in a dimension here, and I'm gonna go with let's say 3 millimeters for now, but we could always adjust that.

I do want to make sure that this isn't gonna get too small over here.

So maybe I'll go and add another dimension, and here's a trick. If you dimension from this corner to the circle,

it's going to try to dimension a little different than what I was actually hoping for. So here's a trick. When you're in the dimension tool you can right click and there's a little option here for pick circle or arc tangent. This will allow you to dimension from the tangency of that circle, which for something like this is exactly what I want.


I will note that I got a warning there saying that if I put a dimension here, it's actually gonna overconstrain this particular sketch. It's not exactly what I want. So it automatically turns this into a driven dimension, which just means that this is the result of everything else. But this is pretty good. You know, there's a little thing, you know, if I wanted to, I could just make this a little bit bigger.

I'm noticing I forgot something else. I'm gonna want, you know, this hole over here represents the hole in the cardboard, but I need a hole that represents the zip tie itself. That's gonna be important too. So let's go back to the zip tie, right? I'm showing that zip tie, and we're gonna rotate this slightly. And what I want for now is I want to project the actual, like, you know, this part of the zip tie.

Here that's gonna go through this particular piece. So let's go and use the create project and one of the things to note about the project tool is that the project tool is actually projecting a silhouette of the part. Let's look at this from the top here for a second.

That's not exactly what I was hoping for, right? Because this is really projecting the silhouette, which includes the head, and I really only care about the bottom area. Now I could of course use this purple thing where I, choose specific entities, and that would work just fine. But what I'm gonna do instead is we're gonna use a different tool which is gonna be create, project, intersect.

And I like to use bodies for this because the bodies tends to update better when you make changes, but this is gonna be perfect. We'll go and use that. Hide the zip tie, this magenta looking thing is the shape of the zip tie itself. I'm gonna want some clearance, so we're gonna go and add an offset, and for that amount we'll go and use that same parameter we used earlier, that gap.

Perfect.

And then we'll go the sketch, I have that setting turned on where it hides my sketch automatically. So I'm going to go and just show that sketch, and I'm going to extrude again this time, not from the bottom, but I'm going to extrude from this top surface. So we'll go and say I'm going to start from this object, and then I can drag this up however much I want, but I'm gonna go and use that minimum thickness again.


Perfect. Actually, that's looking really good. And at this point I could hide my sketch. Actually you can hide the origin as well, and I'm pretty happy with it. I might want to go and add some filets, so we'll go and add that as well.


Pretty good. We'll go and add it's a little big, 0.5 millimeter, and I'm pretty happy.

All right, so the next part of this is making sure that the zip tie is not only going to fit in it in this orientation, but when I go in and snap the zip tie off, like the whole way that this is intended to work is that I cut the zip tie off on one side.


So I have the zip tie on the top with the washer, and then on the very bottom, I'll keep the orientation so that this makes sense. I'm taking the head from another zip tie and I'm putting that through here, and I'm going to use that as the bottom. That means that I need another washer down below as well, which also ideally


Means that I'm using the same design for both. So let's actually go and use this. We're going to go and take this washer that I already created and copy and paste it. This is creating a second instance of that washer, right? So it's the same component, but it's the second one of them. And I'll go and just move this out of the way so you can actually see it.

this is stuck for some reason. Why is that stuck?


Well, let's just unstuck it, so to speak. I'm gonna go and add a joint between the origin of the new washer and the origin of the original washer. We're gonna go and move this down and then we're also gonna go and flip it.


And I'm not seeing it for some reason. Let's go and see what's up here. I don't know what the deal is yet. This is kind of the fun stuff when you're doing live streams is you never know what you're actually gonna get, so to speak.


I'll admit that's a little funny. I'm not 100% sure why that's happening.


Oh, I see the problem. I screwed up, and that does happen from time to time. When I did the extrudes a moment ago, I did not activate the washer, and that means that the extrudes created a new body that doesn't happen to be in the washer itself. Not a big deal. I could just go and drag that into the washer, and now that's in here, which means that when I go and I copy the washer, then this time you'll actually be able to see it.


Let's go and hit that copy button. We'll go and use the joint again, we'll go and use the origin to the origin, we'll do a flip, and we'll drag this down some amount.

I want to simulate the head of the zip tie, so I could take the zip tie and just put it there, but another thing that you could do that I recommend is we're going to go to create, and we're going to make a derived component. A derived component is a second component that uses some aspect of the first.


So I just pulled in this new I made a new component and I pulled in the original zip tie, and then on this, all I'm gonna do is change it where I'm gonna create a quick rectangle, and we're gonna chop off some of this zip tie.


So maybe like half the millimeter. Now, ideally I would constrain the sketch, but it turns out I'm already behind schedule. So let's go and just cut this off, it OK, and now I have a second file that I'm going to save here and we're going to call the zip tie cut off. And the reason that I did the derived component is that if I do change the dimensions of the zip tie in this file, the cutoff version will also update.


And that's one of the benefits of derived components. So let's go back here. I'm gonna go and grab the zip tie that was cut off. Let's go and find that one right here.


Perfect. I'm gonna go and just move it out of the way for a second, and then we're gonna go and take this, and we're gonna go and make a joint, and I'm gonna go and use, let's say this point right there, and I'm gonna line it up over here.

And based on doing this, I'm already seeing that I'm gonna have potentially a slight problem.


Right? The space here is big enough for the zip tie, but not when the zip tie is actually centered, like where it would really be centered. So based on this, now I know I could go back and edit my sketch and actually update this. So maybe I had over here that I was using gap, but really maybe I want to override this and make this like 0.5 of a millimeter of a gap, and now my part's gonna go and update. It's really that simple.

So what we're going to do is we're going to go and add a couple of filets here because we want this to look good. Go and add a couple of filets here as well, and let's send this to our 3D printer and actually try this out, right? So we're gonna go and take this, and normally what I do is I go to tools, make a 3D print, and I send this to a slicer.


But this MakerBot, which is a phenomenal machine, is using a cloud slicer. We don't have a connection to it yet, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to just not send this to a 3D print utility. I'll just save this on my computer. We'll go with this file right there and I'll replace that.


And I just created that STL file on my computer, just locally. Now what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna jump over to my web browser. I'm using Google Chrome and I'm on cloudprint.Makerott.com, which is that cloud slicer for the MakerBot MethodX carbon, and I'm gonna choose to start a new print, and we're gonna add that STL file to this. Go and grab that from my desktop.


And load in here. Now it happens to load in rotate it. So let's go and use that rotate tool. We're gonna go and grab the bottom of this and make that the bottom. Perfect. And then we'll go and arrange my build plate automatically.

And then we have a whole bunch of options here on the right for different ways that I can actually print this. The only thing I'm going to adjust for now based on time is instead of using my dissolvable or like a water soluble support material, I'm actually using SR 30 normally, we're gonna go and use the breakaway model material as our support, and this really doesn't, in my opinion, need a lot of support, so it should be fine. And


Base layer, we're actually not gonna use any raft, so this is gonna print faster, and this is small enough that I don't think we're gonna need raft. I don't think we're gonna have any kind of like warping. So I think this is pretty good. We're just gonna go and hit that print button.


And it's gonna send that over to the printer

While it's doing that, let's verify that everything is preheated.

It looks like it is.

So let's start our print.

Give that just a moment. It's actually gonna go and start the print, make sure that everything is as it should be. It's getting everything ready. You can actually already hear in the background, my bed is actually raising, and it's gonna go and start that print.


Now my expectation for this print based on the size is that it's gonna be about 5 or 6 minutes

you can design something until you're blue in the face.


But it's really only once you hold it in your hands that you know if it's going to work or if it's not gonna work, and you're gonna know what you need to adjust to get it to work. So I've seen a lot of people that they design something and then they wonder, should I 3D print it or should I wait? And then they end up waiting.


They keep designing, they keep waiting, they keep designing, and then they finally print out whatever that part is, only to find that it doesn't work for a whole bunch of reasons. And if they would have only printed it earlier, they would have known that much earlier as well, right? And they would have saved a lot of time in the long run.


So to me, I have this policy, which is, if I ever have this uh tickle in my throat, so to speak, uh should I print it? The answer is absolutely yes, and you should print it now. Once you have that in your hands, that's when you're gonna know whatever it is that you got wrong, maybe it's the spacing, maybe it's the height, maybe it's any number of different things, you'll go and be able to adjust that and then actually redesign it or adjust your design, and then reprint it.


That iterative process, I think is really important to design and engineering, and not everyone embraces it. So again, I have that rule that I try my best to embrace that and actually print right away.

Let's talk a little bit about those settings that I went through really fast.


And I'll tell you a little bit
about this printer and my experience with it so far. All right, so first, the printer itself.


I mentioned it's a MakerBot Method X carbon. I'm very fortunate that MakerBot actually provided that to me, which is a wonderful treat. But I love using it because it's so easy to use.


I've had a lot of different printers over my years and also access to many industrial 3D printers that are fantastic. But having
a printer in your home or in your garage is wonderful in terms of how fast you can go from that idea to an actual thing you can hold.


And when it comes to those printers that you can typically afford to have in your house or garage, some of the challenges become art warpage or can you print all the materials you want to print, and how much do you have to fuss with the settings to get it to actually do what you want it to do. And what I love about the MakerBot printer is that it's just really easy. So, let me show you what I'm talking about. I'm gonna share my screen again.

And we're gonna go and pretend like we're starting a new print. Now this shouldn't mess with what's already happening in the background, so that'll continue, and we'll go


and pretend like we're doing


this the first time. We'll go and add that same file again.


Right, so the interface is really simple. First of all, it knows what it's actually doing cause it's Wi Fi connected. That's cool. It knows the materials that are in here, and I have uh two different heads on this printer, of course. One of them has nylon 12 with carbon fiber, and the other is SR30, which is a support material. And we'll talk a little bit more about that in a few minutes.


But those are the two materials, and the point here is that the slicer actually knows what's actually in the machine, so that's pretty cool.


And then in terms of like what you're doing in the slicer, it just makes it really simple. So you bring in the part or parts, you can have as many parts as you want, of course, and your options are really simple. Move, rotate, and scale.


Right at the point right now I don't really know how to move it because the important thing is I need to rotate. This is what we did before. I can type in X, Y, and Z angles, that's fine, based on these blue, green, and red arrows you see on the screen, or I could just say place on build plate based on the actual model, and that's typically what I do.


So I rotated my part and that's done, pretty happy with that. I could scale the part, but realistically, I don't do that because I'm always printing the size that I want, you know, like, which is what I designed. So I'm printing it 100%. But if I really wanted to, I could scale here, of course. And then lastly, I can move things. And moving is gonna be about arranging your parts, of course, but you'll see.


There's this square thing in the corner. So if I'm printing with the support material, the printer head is going to be switching between support and the build material, and it's gonna have a little bit of like extra material that comes off every time it switches. So the square is actually a way that MakerBot is able to like clean the head, so to speak, so that it's printing clean material on your part itself. That's what you're going to care about.


So this square could be in the corner, but that means that every time you go to clean the head, it's going to the corner, doing a loop. It's like a bow tie shape actually, and then it goes back to the center to actually make my part. But if you hit this arranged build plate, it'll rearrange things to optimize it. That that's a really cool thing. It just does it easily.

In terms of print settings, this is where the real magic happens. So on the right here you'll see print mode. Balance is the standard, but you can also say I want like a custom mode where you change all of the settings. And I can't tell you the number of people that are 3D printing that still don't get those settings right.


You know, they can try and try, and every time they do a print, they get really upset that something isn't perfect, and they have to go and change their settings again. They're wasting material and more importantly, they're wasting time. And I used to be one of those people and it drove me absolutely crazy.


So what I love about this particular slicer that comes with the MakerBot machine, of course, is that it just does it automatically. You know, the settings that it puts in are standard settings that are tried and true and just work. If you do want to tweak them, you can tweak them, but for the most part you don't need to tweak them. So when I'm printing, not under a big rush of trying to do everything in 30 minutes, which I'm already 2 minutes over on.


What I would realistically do is just not change the settings, and what it will do is it'll print a raft layer, which is like a base layer to make sure my part sticks to the bed very well. It'll use a dissolvable tapered setting on my SR 30 supports. And then once the part is done, it'll look something like

The black is the carbon fiber or the nylon with carbon fiber. The white that you see here is the SR 30, and then the black on the bottom is that wrap layer that we talked about to make sure that this sticks really well to the bed and doesn't peel up and therefore warm.


The SR30 is not really water dissolvable, like some other water dissolvable supports. It does use a chemical bath that is an eco-friendly chemical bath. So on the other side of this wall.


Let's go back to normal zoom. On the other side of this wall, I have a wash tank filled with that eco-friendly chemical bath, and I put the part in, I let it heat up for about and like swirl the liquid around for about 40, no, not 40 minutes. I well, yes, 40 minutes. I then take the part out, I peel off any big chunks that come off, and then I put it back in for about 4 hours, and once it's done, it comes out perfect.


Now you're probably wondering yourself like why bother with that support material? It's just adding another process to your process and therefore time, but the key there is that I can make shapes that have huge overhang problems that are not actually problems. So when you're designing for 3D printing.


They'll typically tell you that a 45 degree angle is like the maximum overhang that you're gonna allow yourself for FDM printing, and for my FDM prints on this maker bot, I print whatever I want, and the white XR 30 material or support material is what is able to make that happen.


And the only drawback is that I have to use that wash tank to get rid of that white material, but to me it's totally worth it because now I'm not limited to geometry that's only up to 45 degrees. I can create overhangs and I can create holes on the side or anything else I want without any problems.

one of the cool things about this printer is that it's a heated build chamber.


So if you're printing in PLA, you don't realistically need a heated bed. If you're printing in ABS, they'll tell you that you need a heated bed so that that part doesn't work. That's part of why that raft is created so that the part doesn't peel up off the bed. But the cool thing about the heated chamber is that it means that the part is more likely to stay on the bed, but it also means it's less likely to warp in general.


And that to me is amazing. It also means that when I'm done with my part and I get the white support material off, I can actually put this part back into the machine. And in the machine, there's a setting to anneal the part, and annealing the part is gonna make it much stronger, and I, I do that as well. So that is a third process that I do. Well worth it.


Lastly, with the heated build chamber, it means that if you have material that you're concerned about humidity, especially for that water soluble support, you can actually put it in the, the chamber and run a drying cycle and it will dry the material for you. And then you can actually load it to go and print with it.

Our print is done.


We'll go and grab the bed.


I mean this guy right here, of course. This is my part.


We'll give it a little flex, pull that part right off.

A little string

I'll pull off, not a big deal. The part's looking pretty good. Let's go and grab our zip tie.


Make sure this actually fits.


There we go, a nice tight fit, and we'll give this a nice pull.


Well, a little tighter than
I was expecting.


There we go.

So here we have our washer right at the end. Let me turn on the zoom here so you can see this a little better. There we go. So I have my washer all the way up to the end. It's fitting perfectly, so I'm actually happy, and that's looking good. Then I can also check the head of the zip ties. So this is the one that I cut off a few minutes ago, and we'll go and place that right in here.


Oh, and that's looking really good as well. So that fits nice and there's actually a little bit of space around it, so I have a little bit of extra room, and then if I take


My zip tie itself, and let's actually go and test this.


Oh, this is looking great.


Perfect. All right, so this is what one end of this is actually gonna look like, right? So that's the head, the zip tie going through it, and then I would snip this off and I'd be pretty happy with that.